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Violent Alabama Sovereign Citizen Shot Dead By Cops After Refusing To Show ID

Posted in Uncategorized
at 2015.12.28
With 0 Comments

Meet Robert Earl Lawrence, sovereign citizen, who was killed by police Tuesday because the self-declared free citizen refused to perform the most basic of tasks and wound up losing his life over an incredibly inane request.

Paranoia doesnt pay, kids.

The 30-year-old Alabama man seemed well-meaning as he dropped a stray animal off at the Dothan City Animal Shelter. However, the shelter requires everybody that drops an animal off to show an ID before leaving.

Instead of an ID, Lawrence handed the shelter personnel a piece of paper that explained he was a sovereign citizen and therefore not bound to any laws, federal, state or local. When the employees rightfully refused to let Lawrence leave without showing proper ID the free citizen allegedly became very angry which prompted the shelter workers to call the Dothan police.


When police arrived Lawrence was still irate and wouldnt show the police his ID. When police tried to arrest Lawrence for not following a lawful order, a struggle allegedly ensued, and ended with the sovereign citizen shot in the abdomen. Lawrence was unarmed.

Lawrence later died from the gunshot wound that night.

Sovereign citizen had a tinfoiled past

Not only was Lawrence delusional in believing he could simply declare himself an independent citizen while living off his countrys resources and services, he was also prone to violence and threats, prosecutors say.

Earlier this year, Lawrence plead guilty to threatening and harassing a State Department of Human Resources employee in 2013 and served a three-month sentence for that crime.


Another incident, stemming from a child custody dispute, Lawrence threatened to hold a child hostage like Jimmy Lee Dykes. Dykes was accused of abducting a five-year-old boy and holding him hostage in a bunker under his house.

Lawrence also made references to the shootings in Sandy Hook in the same phone call to government employees where he mentioned Dykes.

Two women who have children with Lawrence also filed orders of protection against Lawrence; one woman was choked and the other had her life threatened.

The shooting is being investigated by the State Bureau of Investigations.

In cases where cops shoot unarmed citizens for very small crimes, its important to be critical of the official story. However, being a sovereign citizen doesnt put a person in the best company either, the cop-killers from Nevada were sovereign citizens who had protested at the Bundy Ranch. Another sovereign citizen went to a courthouse in Georgia with an arsenal only to be shot and killed.

A citizen who declares they are above the law, simply because they say so, is going to have a rough time when they break the law and are confronted by officers who do not recognize sovereign citizens as having the legal right to disobey orders.

While it may seem silly for an animal shelter to require ID to drop off animals, think of it for the animals sake. If say, an animal were dropped off and later found to be abused, the last person to have contact with the animal should be contacted. Or in the case of animal hoarding or abuse cases, if a person is routinely dropping off sick or hurt pets, the agency may want to be able to detect a pattern of behavior over time.

There are many good reasons an ID is required to drop an animal off and letting one person go without it, simply because they say the animal shelter should break an important rule because theyre special, is insane.

H/T: Raw Story | Photo: Dothan Police


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  • Belinda Bates

    Disobeying a police officer shouldnt come with a death sentence. Not showing ID at an animal shelter shouldnt cost you your life. Whats wrong with you people?


    • trenaherringtonchapman

      Whats wrong with your reading comprehension? He didnt die because he refused to show ID. He died because he became belligerent and violent with the police. He also had a history of that behavior.


      • Joe Greenlee

        There is actually no proof thus far that he became violent with them, they could just as well have become violent with him and he could have run and that is what happens in this country a lot.


  • Joy

    It happens even if people are mentally and physically handicapped being shot by a police officer. Just google mentally ill shot by police or diabetic shot by police its really sad that this is acceptable on any level. EVER.


  • EcoAdvocate

    police are not the executioners.


  • workingstill

    The point is it shouldnt happen at all. The level of depravity law enforcement has against the citizens they claim to serve is disgraceful in a free society. Unless there are drastic changes in the attitudes of law enforcement America will descend into a third world violent country.


  • boblgumm

    More and more Americans like the I am Darren Wilson set and apparently the author of this story have zero understanding of basic Constitutional rights and the definition of murder. Jeezus to Mergatriod Christ, Jenna Duffey, Darling Damination is spot on. If you find the accusation of being a Nazi a bit overboard then you need to study why it is correct. First of all, you do not have to give a cop ID. Second of all, even if you did, do you really believe it is correct to murder someone for this offense? If you do, then you are exactly a Nazi.


    • trenaherringtonchapman

      Did you read the article? Obviously not.


      • Jim Farrell

        Im beginning to doubt that you read the article


      • Joy

        Why are you condoning this behavior? The same things, as has been pointed out previously, have been said about the unarmed black men who have been shot by the police. They had a criminal past. He smoked marijuana!

        Obviously, to you, those people deserve to die. In this case, those people are not black men, but those who have decided to call themselves sovereign citizens. Whether you want to believe this or not, we all deserve to not be shot for refusing to show ID. Because that is what this boils down to. He refused to show ID. They wouldnt let him leave from the animal shelter because he thought his piece of paper was good enough. If someone prevented you from leaving from anywhere, Im sure youd get belligerent, too.

        Vigilantism is not justice, whether that person wears a badge or not. Whether or not you think sovereign citizens are nut cases or not (I do, but thats beside the point), do they not deserve the same protections as do we all?

        Im sorry, but your moral relativism is showing.


        • DarklingMagick

          Joy, take a deep breath. Now re-read what they wrote very slowly. They are asking if the article was read, meaning Did you catch the obvious sarcastic statements that are against what happened to this man? You are supposed to feel outraged that he was shot. For Gods sake do you not know the political leanings of this site? I hope youre a troll, I really do. No one here said anything against the man who died, just against those not grasping the intention of the writing style because their reading comprehension cant even make it through Harry freakin Potter.


          • Joy

            I know very well the political leanings of this site. I am very liberal in my views. If this article was satire, it was very poorly done.


          • UCPhotog

            I disagree Joy. Possibly you just didnt pick up on the satire this time. Seems most of us did. And thats fine, Im not saying anything bad, just that maybe you read it quickly, read it at a time when you had to concentrate on something else, or didnt hear it with the same tone as many of us. Emotion is often very difficult to decipher in the written word.

            Others read too far or not enough. One commentor noted about how the shelter held him illegally. Article says nothing about that, just an argument and the shelter called the cops.

            I think most of us agree legal requirement to show the ID. OK, so if you dont want to show ID, you dont leave the animal. And the cops could have ticketed him for disorderly at worst. The truth will likely come out in the next few weeks with details.


          • Becky J.

            I read the article once through fairly quickly, then read the comments in which several people propose that it is satire or tongue-in-cheek, then read the article again very carefully. I agree strongly with Joy that if it was meant as satire, it is very poorly written.

            As far as the assertion that the article says nothing about the shelter holding this man illegally, the article states, When the employees rightfully refused to let Lawrence leave without showing proper ID…. Animal shelter employees dont have a legal right to detain people, so that could certainly be construed as holding him illegally. The refusal to let him leave is what caused the argument from what I understand (this is the second article Ive read about this incident).

            Me personally, because Im an animal lover and support shelters, in this particular situation I would probably just show the ID. That said, if I for some reason didnt want to show ID, I wouldnt get belligerent because thats not in my personality, but I also would sure as hell not show it. Id just walk out peacefully, irrespective of demands by the employees that I stay.


          • Tony Thompson

            I agree. I didnt pick up on any satire either.


      • Tony Thompson

        No, its not obvious. Boblgumm came to a different conclusion than you did after reading this article. Doesnt mean they didnt read it.


    • sefub

      Like I said all this stop and show me your ID, and whats in your pockets and stuff is that Nazi gestapo behavior and needs to be done away with.


  • Joy

    Im so tired of hearing stories of unarmed people being shot by police, for alleged crimes for which they have not been convicted. Sovereign citizen or not, no one deserves to be shot for not showing ID. While I realize that there is probably much more to this story than what is being reported, it still sickens and frightens me that this is ok to anyone in any way.

    Quite frankly, I find the slant of this article to be more than a little unpalatable. Dont get me wrong, sovereign citizens are not above the law, but they deserve the same protections as everyone who resides in this country should get.


    • flora68

      Try READING THE ARTICLE.


      • Joy

        Yeah I READ the article and my takeaway is that there is as much justification for shooting this man as there was for shooting Michael Brown. Not much. He was unarmed and the animal control workers would not let him leave because he would not produce ID. Then they called the police.

        I really dont think it should have escalated to gunfire, and using his past to justify this shooting while villainizing RWNJ sites for using the same MO regarding other high profile police shootings (bringing up their unrelated priors) is disgusting.


        • Master Lond

          The other part that was left out of this article was that he was being arrested, not for failure to show identification, but for disturbing the peace. He started a ruckus because they asked him to show identification in accordance with their established policy for dropping off an animal.
          He refused and started yelling and screaming. The staff at the shelter called the cops. The cops tried to calm the guy to no avail. He continued to carry on and was then informed he was being placed under arrest for disturbing the peace. His refusal to show identification to the police was then a violation of the law upon arrest you are required to show identification.


          • Tony Thompson

            While all of that is true, thats still no cause to kill the guy.


      • becky

        did you miss the part where it says they refused to let him leave? how far did that go exactly? they are an animal shelter..not law enforcement. to block his exit ins unlawful. they had no right to prevent him from leaving.


      • Joy

        You didnt even bother to READ my response, did you? Where did I say executed? I did not. And the sloppiness of the research along with the victim-blaming is what has really soured me to this article even further. The man was not armed. He was shot by the police. Those are the facts as I understand them. There is no mention in any of the other articles I have read that this man was going for the officers gun (more to the story than what has been reported), and he had been tased… so why shoot him? Also, the other articles I have read also say that the shelter would not let him leave *the cat* without his ID. This one says they would not let *him* leave without producing ID.

        I do not care if this article is supposed to be satire. As I said previously, its poorly done and in very poor taste. You wagging your finger and continuing to bring up his past so as to defend the police shooting another unarmed person smacks of hypocrisy


  • Belinda Bates

    I dont understand the tone of your article. Youre doing the same thing to this unarmed white citizen that would be deemed racist if the citizen were black. No matter his past or his ideology, the state doesnt have the right to detain and execute him for not showing ID. This is ridiculous.

    The fact that you dont see this as an overreaction and another case of cops killing an unarmed man because they can shows that this site is hypocritical.


    • DarklingMagick

      Umm…. Guys… You know this was written tongue in cheek, right? The author is against what happened to the guy.


  • Timothy Bishop

    Im as left as they go, and that was just plain murder. He doesnt have to show shit because he didnt break a law. Last time I heard, animal shelters dont have the right to prevent a citizen to leave or detain them. It sounds a lot like false imprisonment or detainment.


    • trenaherringtonchapman

      Another one who didnt read the article.


      • Joe Greenlee

        No, we did read it. We dont think the police should murder people.


      • Timothy Bishop

        I read the article, I just didnt do a website inspection before I walked into it. This is one of the very few problems in the country that should be spoken about in plain language so everyone can understand. I enjoy satire and vignette, but there are people writing this same article on the same story and being literal.


      • workingstill

        No, we read the article. Rational people dont believe its acceptable for the police to murder anyone for something so dumb as not showing an ID. If the officers couldnt take on one man and arrest him then they shouldnt be cops.


      • becky

        article clearly states…….Instead of an ID, Lawrence handed the shelter personnel a piece of paper that explained he was a sovereign citizen and therefore not bound to any laws, federal, state or local. When the employees rightfully refused to let Lawrence leave without showing proper ID the free citizen allegedly became very angry which prompted the shelter workers to call the Dothan police. how can an animal shelter refuse to allow you to leave?


        • trenaherringtonchapman

          He broke the law. Then, when the police were called, he got violent.


          • becky

            what law did he break? not showing I.D was a rule.. not a law. animal shelters dont make laws.


          • Master Lond

            becky… He was being charged with disturbing the peace because of the way he carried on in the shelter, even after the cops tried to get him to calm down. There is a law against disturbing the peace. Once they informed him he was being arrested for disturbing the peace, he was required to provide identification.


          • Tony Thompson

            And as we all know in the US, when youre violent, you deserve to be killed by the police. Do I have that right?


    • DarklingMagick

      You do know that this was written tongue in cheek, right? The author is against what happened to the guy.


      • Tony Thompson

        Im not seeing how the article is tongue in cheek.


    • sefub

      But that it happened is news worthy. Are the police going to be held accountable.


  • TrentC

    So all you folks wouldnt mind if, after you fine people asked me for ID, I said I would kill you all, and then proceeded to attack you? Wouldnt call a cop? And if you were the cop, youd stand there to wait and see why I was digging around in my pockets? To compare Brown to a thug Nazi is the highest form of disrespect.


    • trenaherringtonchapman

      They only read the headline. They didnt bother to read the entire article; that would have taken time.


      • Rick Derris

        I read it. The whole thing was victim blaming.


        • TheNefilim

          Maybe if the victim hadnt a long history of violent offenses and wasnt a member of a terrorist group known for killing police officers he wouldnt be getting blamed….


          • Rick Derris

            They said the same thing about Michael Brown and Eric Garners deaths. They bring up their arrests and various crimes they committed to justify the shooting of an unarmed man who wasnt presenting a threat to anyones life.


        • DarklingMagick

          Psst… Im 99% sure the article was written in a sarcastic tone. You know this was written tongue in cheek, right? The author is against what happened to the guy.


          • Rick Derris

            If this is satire, then good work. Because it had me fooled. :)


          • boblgumm

            Im 99 percent you are wrong DarklingMagick, if the vast majority of the responses are any indication. Most of us know the difference between sarcasm and straight reporting. Apparently you dont. Perhaps the author will clue us in. Or is she too ashamed?


  • Rolo Mictlantecuhtli

    Moral of the story: Better to kill a bad person than take a stray dog without proper ID. I think Aesop wrote something about this too.


    • trenaherringtonchapman

      He wasnt shot because he failed to provide ID. The police were called because he became belligerent when the shelter asked for ID. He was shot when he fought with police. READ the article.


      • Jim Farrell

        Belligerence equals death?


      • Rolo Mictlantecuhtli

        Have you read Aesop?


  • pianoman

    All he had to do is say Screw you, and walk out the door. He was the one who choose to stay and fight.


  • KJ

    Why is someone required to show id for dropping off a stray cat, but people can leave babies at the fire dept or hospital with no questions asked? I also dont like how they painted this guy as a violent paranoid loon. They do black people like that all the time in the media, but in either case its just wrong to do.


  • trenaherringtonchapman

    If I call the police when someone enters my business and becomes belligerent with me when I insist he follow my rules, and that person becomes violent with the police, then whose fault is it when that person is hurt? This person had a history of being violent and threatening violence. He wasnt innocent. And, he wasnt shot in the back.


    • Rick Derris

      They said the same thing about Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown.


    • Joe Alonzo

      You are using literally the exact defense that Darren Wilsons supporters have been spewing across the internet for the past six months. Thats some fine company youre in.


  • 02Dave12345

    My politics are to the left of Dennis Kucinich but the angle of this article disgusts me, this is as outrageous as killing an African American 12 year old playing with a toy gun.

    There are many good reasons an ID is required to drop an animal off and letting one person go without it, simply because they say the animal shelter should break an important rule because theyre special, is insane.

    I agree, but the guy is dead!


  • Rick Derris

    What the hell is with this story? Why is it when the victim is a person whose views we disagree with suddenly we blame the victim? He was unarmed, he was shot by the police. Just like Michael Brown, Dillon Taylor, and several others who should not be dead.

    Its really embarrassing that a liberal news site would suddenly go full wingnut when the death is a member of the far right. The same speech youre using against this guy is the same language that the right used to defend the death of Michael Brown.


  • justice4rall

    Disgusting article. Killing this man over not having an ID is ok with you?????? Disgusting!!!


  • TheNefilim

    Looks like the sovereign thugs have shown up to defend one of their own…


  • Joe Greenlee

    There was nothing rightful about any of this and the fact you are excusing it makes you a collaborator to fascism, Jenna Duffy. I am livid that you would excuse the murder of this innocent man. I dont say those words lightly. You are collaborating with a fascist element of our society bent on killing innocent citizens to further the goals of a police state. This man did absolutely nothing wrong in the scenario given. The people there REFUSED to let him leave for not showing ID. If he had previous incidents of violence with women, that had NOTHING to do with the issue of WHY he was held there and WHY the police KILLED him. But it suspiciously raises the question of why you are advocating his murder. Are you glad he was killed because of the charges made against him by his exes? Are you glad he was murdered because he made some phone calls you didnt like?

    That is IMMORAL to an OBSCENE degree. You are cheerleading, smugly, this mans death. You are trying to tell us that it was justifiable. It wasnt. This shouldnt have happened. Mocking him in death is also immoral. Im glad you are basking in your own self importance for all the world to see what a completely docile minded patsy you are.


  • Joe Alonzo

    Wow. The tone of this article is disgusting, and I cant believe the comments here. An unarmed man was shot by the police, and people on here talking about his criminal record and violent past, as if that somehow warrants him being shot and killed. This is literally no different than bringing up Mike Browns alleged robbery as a defense for Darren Wilson. Even if the cops actions were justified (which no article that Ive read about it has indicated that it was), how about treating the death of another human being with a little less contempt? I supported Mike Brown, I supported Eric Garner, and I support this man, regardless of how contemptible I find his personal beliefs.


  • damadtech

    So, lets see….. The Supreme Court has already ruled i can tell the animal shelter personnel to pi$$ off in the most vulgar or colorful language I choose (and the cops too) and its not a crime. The animal shelter rule is not a law as best I can find so far, just their rule, so one has not committed a crime by refusing them an ID. The cops show up because someone was upset they were told to shove it and the cops allegedly demand ID when apparently NO CRIME was apparently ever committed. The cops would have no right to detain him since there is NO evidence of a crime having been committed so it would appear he has every right to tell them to shove it legally. It appears the only thing that was left out was if they tried to forcibly detain him and the fight ensued. Unless Ive missed something or the law as I read it has changed, the police would then be in the wrong and that would NOT give them the right to cause an altercation that leads to anyones death regardless of the sovereign citizen issue. Now, if the individual physically attacked the police WITHOUT them making the first move instead of acting like he had some sense and standing his ground in a legal manner, that in itself alters the police officers right to then protect themselves and others in the immediate vicinity. Seems a WHOLE lot of details are missing and until that point when ALL the information is released (if it ever is), then and only then does our speculation justify deciding who was actually responsible for the final outcome.


    • Master Lond

      The cops were arresting him for disturbing the peace, not for failing to show identification, that would have been an additional charge once they were arresting him.

      Plus, the cops apparently tried to calm him down first and he did not. The first cop also called for backup.


  • Edward Brown

    While the officer may have been threatened, why did he not use pepper spray or taser? Why its it first resort to use a gun to to coerce the mentally disordered to back down or accept arrest and then shoot when they act on their disorder??


    • Master Lond

      Good question. I can think of a few possibilities, none of which are comforting. Ego, panic or training.


  • Master Lond

    There are two things I have not seen mentioned in the comments, though I may have missed them.

    1. The fact that there was allegedly a physical struggle between the cops and the suspect. If this is true, then the use of deadly force may end up being justifiable.

    2. He was being arrested. The article does not mention why he was being arrested. I went to the local TV site for Dothan and found he was being charged with disorderly conduct, that is a crime and would require him to provide identification.

    Given this guys past history of violence and threats of violence, it is easy to give the police the benefit of the doubt in this case.

    If the shelters policy is that everyone has to show identification when dropping off a pet, then he was in violation of the policy. He became hostile and refused to comply. The shelter called the cops to resolve the situation, which is what they should have done.

    The shelter had a bit of a dilemma because they should have, from a strictly procedural point of view, refused to take the animal if he did not follow their policy. However, ethically they should have taken the animal to ensure its safety and well being; especially, after seeing his behavior.

    The first cop there tried to get the guy to calm down and was unable to get him to calm down. When he was having trouble he called for backup. So it wasnt a case of shoot first, ask questions later.


  • Keyser Soze

    If he was black, youd be screaming murder. Screw you for thinking police murdering innocent people is ok, regardless of skin color or politics. Supporting police fascism makes you a fascist. A SMUG fascist at that.


  • harmonikasavingsbond

    They have to kill a white man every now and then to appear fair and balanced, like their Masters have established.


  • ROBERT

    THAT WAS A RULE OF THE ANIMAL SHELTER TO SHOW AN I.D. NOT A LAW THE MAN REFUSED TO OBEY SO THE COPS HAD NO RIGHT TO DEMAND I.D. THE COPS WAY OVER REACTED AND KILLED ANOTHER UNARMED PERSON.THE COPS ARE THE ONES WHO ESCALATED THE SITUATION AND THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED FOR KILLING AN UNARMED MAN.IF I WERE IN ALABAMA {GOD FORBID} I WOULD NEVER TAKE A STRAY ANIMAL TI THE SHELTER,YOU MAY BE GUNNED DOWN WHEN ALL YOU WERE TRYING TO DO IS HELP A PORE LITTLE ANIMAL.SHAME SHAME SHAME !!!


    • Master Lond

      What this article left out is that he was being arrested for disturbing the peace. It was because of this charge that he cops required ID.
      The shelter required it because of their policies. From a business stand point, they could have refused the animal if he was unwilling to comply and asked him to leave the property. They chose a more ethical and humane approach in taking the animal to ensure its safety.


      • ROBERT

        KILLING A HUMAN BEING THE MORE HUMANE APPROACH.I GUESS THATS ONE WAY TO LOOK AT IT.


        • Master Lond

          They claim he became violent and a physical altercation ensued. Beyond that no details were provide. It may turn out to be a justified shooting, it may not be a justified shooting. There is not enough information at this point to make a decision.
          Should they have used non-lethal force, yes. Was it possible to do in this situation? Maybe, maybe not. For all we know the guy reached for the gun and it was accidently discharged. Maybe the cop was poorly trained, maybe the cop is a psycho. We do not know.


  • Exsquid

    Now if saint Ronnie hadnt empty out the mental hospitals, This lunatic would most likely be alive


  • Hagbard Celine

    For many years I worked as a Psychiatric Technician at a very violent mental hospital for criminals. We had no weapons no mace no shields no tasers nothing but our bare hands and a restraint blanket which was a huge thick blanket that was knife proof and we would throw it over the out of control person and try to wrap them up. We were not allowed to use any offensive moves just defensive moves and no punching or hitting or kicking on our end either. We never lost a fight and we stopped most problems within a minute or two. There are lots of ways to control a situation without guns. The guns should be there for backup or for when the bad guy has them.


  • insaneupsdriver

    dont they have a tazer? this is excessive force. second, no country has the right to refuse a sovereign citizen if they were born there to begin with other wise the U.S. would still be part of Briton even now. people do this when their government stops representing them and they have the legal right to regardless of any laws the country tries to enforce as long as theyre not doing anything against others rights freedoms. in this case the police went over board and obviously the man fought for his freedom and lost. one thing to note though, if you declare your self sovereign that dont give you the right to any social programs paid for by taxes unless you pay up front. even if your house is burning to the ground.


  • James Quinn

    I once had a Police officer ask me for my I D and I asked him for his first. sort of a show me yours Ill show you mind kind of thing. I cant but help get the Nazi error Show me your papers thing out of my head. He then explained that there was a report of a crime being committed by a man wearing a hoodie, which I was wearing because it was COLD not because it was looking or had looked to commit a crime. I said in reply Im sorry about that, but it wasnt me and left.

    From what I read the guy brought a stray to the shelter a good thing. The law insists on an ID so what? The important thing is the stray is looked out for. The police get involved and they refuse to let go or drop such a minor issue when again the important thing is to take care of the stray. So they likely push the unimportant issue and violence is done. It does not matter the guy was violent in the past or ANY of his history for that matter. All that matters is if the so called crime of not showing your ID worthing of a DEATH sentence!?! Even if adding resisting arrest for not showing your ID. I say clearly no…

    Pagan jim


  • johndavis1

    Was it a law that he had to show his iD or was it just policy!


  • Martin Schmid

    I think the police should have shot the cat and let him go. That would have been a more reasonable solution. But then, this is the USA. We have the front seat to the freak show, right George? (bless your soul).


  • Doy Bowers

    OUTSTANDING JOB LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!! Its about time they put a stop to these Treasonous American Hating Sovereign POS!!!! If you hate America so bad GET OUT!!! If you denounce our country then you denounce the Constitution and Rights that go along with it. Now lets see if they right it off after the investigation or if they call for an indictment??? Was he telling them, I Cant Breath, I cant Breath or was he fighting them and refusing to follow orders??? Inquiring Minds want to know!!!

  • Pingback: Hypocrisy In Reporting From A Liberal News Source | DerekMarch.com()


  • Master Lond

    a physical altercation occurred with the police, without knowing the details of that altercation, we cannot say there was no justification nor can we say there was justification.


  • Master Lond

    He actually had plead guilty, last year, to harassing communications and making terrorist thrests to a DHR employee.

    He was being arrested for disorderly conduct /disturbing the peace.

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